<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: To my middle-aged fuddy-duddy friends: today&#8217;s social networks are like yesterday&#8217;s cell-phones</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/</link>
	<description>Blogging the impact of computer-related technology trends, and whatever else catches my interest.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:22:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-31838</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-31838</guid>
		<description>Ed Nilges,

Yes, I&#039;m on Facebook ... though I rarely update my status there. Most of my Web 2.0 communications are on Twitter (where my Twitter-id is &quot;yourdon&quot;). And my Twitter &quot;network&quot; seems to be a different set of people than the Facebook &quot;network&quot; -- one is mostly business/professional colleagues and friends, while the other is family, relatives, personal friends. So while I previously implemented an automatic cross-post of all my Twitter tweets to Facebook, I&#039;ve recently turned it off...

As for the larger question of whether Dijkstra was relevant: as I recall, he died in 2002 or thereabouts, before blogging was widespread. In any case, if he were alive today, his refusal to blog/Twitter/FB would make him irrelevant -- at least in the short term -- to many younger members of the IT profession. For better or worse, Marshal McLuhan&#039;s statement that &quot;the medium is the message&quot; is a reality. A substantial percentage of the Gen X/Y generation, for example, gets its news about politics and current events from Jon Stewart on the &quot;Daily Show,&quot; not from Brian Williams or the other prime-time news anchors.

Ed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed Nilges,</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m on Facebook &#8230; though I rarely update my status there. Most of my Web 2.0 communications are on Twitter (where my Twitter-id is &#8220;yourdon&#8221;). And my Twitter &#8220;network&#8221; seems to be a different set of people than the Facebook &#8220;network&#8221; &#8212; one is mostly business/professional colleagues and friends, while the other is family, relatives, personal friends. So while I previously implemented an automatic cross-post of all my Twitter tweets to Facebook, I&#8217;ve recently turned it off&#8230;</p>
<p>As for the larger question of whether Dijkstra was relevant: as I recall, he died in 2002 or thereabouts, before blogging was widespread. In any case, if he were alive today, his refusal to blog/Twitter/FB would make him irrelevant &#8212; at least in the short term &#8212; to many younger members of the IT profession. For better or worse, Marshal McLuhan&#8217;s statement that &#8220;the medium is the message&#8221; is a reality. A substantial percentage of the Gen X/Y generation, for example, gets its news about politics and current events from Jon Stewart on the &#8220;Daily Show,&#8221; not from Brian Williams or the other prime-time news anchors.</p>
<p>Ed</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Edward G. Nilges, Hong Kong</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-31826</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward G. Nilges, Hong Kong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-31826</guid>
		<description>Edward! I see,on Facebook, an &quot;Ed Yourdon&quot; in New York City! Is that you? No picture! You middle-aged fuddy duddy!

I&#039;ll send a Friend request. I think I&#039;m relevant, since after I turned down a job offer from you in 1980 which I should have taken (teaching methodology in Latin America) I had all sorts of fascinating adventures in computing. I&#039;ve left the field and now I&#039;m a teacher in Hong Kong.

I hope to see you soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward! I see,on Facebook, an &#8220;Ed Yourdon&#8221; in New York City! Is that you? No picture! You middle-aged fuddy duddy!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll send a Friend request. I think I&#8217;m relevant, since after I turned down a job offer from you in 1980 which I should have taken (teaching methodology in Latin America) I had all sorts of fascinating adventures in computing. I&#8217;ve left the field and now I&#8217;m a teacher in Hong Kong.</p>
<p>I hope to see you soon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Edward G. Nilges, Hong Kong</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-31825</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward G. Nilges, Hong Kong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 06:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-31825</guid>
		<description>I am not so sure that that is true, Edward.

If you cannot write, Twittering and facebooking will make you look foolish. You and I can write, but there are many illiterate and aliterate people who have important stories.

At the other extreme, many readers of Internet media see complex syntax and instantly decide not to read the post, thereby forming a wrong idea of the poster.

In the old days of American data processing, highly intelligent programmers who could write well (of which in my experience there were many) were misunderstood because they thought their expertise would give them a forum in the typical American, and American-influenced, business meeting.

They did not realize that American businessmen are not fond of the English language, having failed to read Alexis de Tocqueville, or Edmund Wilson on the culture of Ford Motors in the 1930s, despite their intelligence.

They were counseled and mentored, ably and well enough, by such as you and Gerald (Weinberg) to learn &quot;effective communication&quot; as a skill apart from content, but as Dijkstra believed, and I believe, this is foolishness.

Today, their blog is unread, both because of traditional American anti-intellectualism, and because language skills are in rapid decline, not so much because of the Internet as the deliberate destruction of public education in the name of tax cuts.

Was Dijkstra irrevelant? He refused to blog before his untimely death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not so sure that that is true, Edward.</p>
<p>If you cannot write, Twittering and facebooking will make you look foolish. You and I can write, but there are many illiterate and aliterate people who have important stories.</p>
<p>At the other extreme, many readers of Internet media see complex syntax and instantly decide not to read the post, thereby forming a wrong idea of the poster.</p>
<p>In the old days of American data processing, highly intelligent programmers who could write well (of which in my experience there were many) were misunderstood because they thought their expertise would give them a forum in the typical American, and American-influenced, business meeting.</p>
<p>They did not realize that American businessmen are not fond of the English language, having failed to read Alexis de Tocqueville, or Edmund Wilson on the culture of Ford Motors in the 1930s, despite their intelligence.</p>
<p>They were counseled and mentored, ably and well enough, by such as you and Gerald (Weinberg) to learn &#8220;effective communication&#8221; as a skill apart from content, but as Dijkstra believed, and I believe, this is foolishness.</p>
<p>Today, their blog is unread, both because of traditional American anti-intellectualism, and because language skills are in rapid decline, not so much because of the Internet as the deliberate destruction of public education in the name of tax cuts.</p>
<p>Was Dijkstra irrevelant? He refused to blog before his untimely death.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-31449</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-31449</guid>
		<description>This sad thing here is the loss of personal contact.  Electronic networks aside.  It is a society in decline where people no longer want to meet face to face to communicate anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sad thing here is the loss of personal contact.  Electronic networks aside.  It is a society in decline where people no longer want to meet face to face to communicate anymore.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-30759</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-30759</guid>
		<description>I came upon this site trying to research if people became more cold and callus around age 40,myself included.I had a lot of long time friends who are very willing and able to discard friendships,families and relationships more easily then I can give up an old pair of running shoes.Not to worry though,most have about 200 or more face book friends as well as a sense of entitlement to change there top ratted friends and family for better ones at any given time.I lot of people That I talk to in person have less attention span then Homer Simpson,maybe I should text them.
  I have some good friends and relatives{not 200},when I&#039;m with them,the computer and cell phone and irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came upon this site trying to research if people became more cold and callus around age 40,myself included.I had a lot of long time friends who are very willing and able to discard friendships,families and relationships more easily then I can give up an old pair of running shoes.Not to worry though,most have about 200 or more face book friends as well as a sense of entitlement to change there top ratted friends and family for better ones at any given time.I lot of people That I talk to in person have less attention span then Homer Simpson,maybe I should text them.<br />
  I have some good friends and relatives{not 200},when I&#8217;m with them,the computer and cell phone and irrelevant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-26398</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-26398</guid>
		<description>Vinnie, you LOVE to disagree! Although it&#039;s possibly a little early to call &quot;irrelevant&quot; on those OTHER middle-aged people, I see it coming. I don&#039;t disagree with Vinnie that there is still some work to do with etiquette (I prefer &quot;norms&quot;), identity and privacy - but pioneers always had to deal with inhospitable terrain and wild animals. Those coming after the early adopters (the &quot;net natives&quot; like our kids) will have both a different perspective on privacy and some better tools for managing identity and interaction on the web ... courtesy of the current trials. Oh - and both my daughters friended me on Facebook, as have a number of their friends ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vinnie, you LOVE to disagree! Although it&#8217;s possibly a little early to call &#8220;irrelevant&#8221; on those OTHER middle-aged people, I see it coming. I don&#8217;t disagree with Vinnie that there is still some work to do with etiquette (I prefer &#8220;norms&#8221;), identity and privacy &#8211; but pioneers always had to deal with inhospitable terrain and wild animals. Those coming after the early adopters (the &#8220;net natives&#8221; like our kids) will have both a different perspective on privacy and some better tools for managing identity and interaction on the web &#8230; courtesy of the current trials. Oh &#8211; and both my daughters friended me on Facebook, as have a number of their friends &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vinnie mirchandani</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-26088</link>
		<dc:creator>vinnie mirchandani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-26088</guid>
		<description>Ed, hate to disagree. I am in that demographic and relatively &quot;cool&quot; by your definition. I write 2 blogs, participate in some Google groups and wikis, have had a LinkedIn account for years and a Facebook account...but do not accept invites to most new services and have an inactive FB account

...not because I am being anti-social but because the messaging mechanism has become more important than the message. It is what my teenage daughter lives in. She emails some one, then calls to make sure the mail was delivered, then uses SMS and IM and her chess chat room...and of course, FN and other web services - and the message is usually the same - the messaging mechanisms have proliferated

98% of folks who are my LinkedIn contact have never contacted me in the past year or ever...I am a &quot;scalp&quot; in their network...

take the other POV. As privacy becomes so difficult with data losses every day, some people do not want to share things like travel details a la Dopplr. Whatever happened to opt-in? It&#039;s only for spam? There is so much social pressure to join specific web services...

,,,so till some rules of etiquette emerge around our social networks I cannot blame your and my fuddy duddy peers for not joining in...

oh and btw my teenage daughter wishes us fuddy duddy&#039;s stayed out of networks like Facebook -)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, hate to disagree. I am in that demographic and relatively &#8220;cool&#8221; by your definition. I write 2 blogs, participate in some Google groups and wikis, have had a LinkedIn account for years and a Facebook account&#8230;but do not accept invites to most new services and have an inactive FB account</p>
<p>&#8230;not because I am being anti-social but because the messaging mechanism has become more important than the message. It is what my teenage daughter lives in. She emails some one, then calls to make sure the mail was delivered, then uses SMS and IM and her chess chat room&#8230;and of course, FN and other web services &#8211; and the message is usually the same &#8211; the messaging mechanisms have proliferated</p>
<p>98% of folks who are my LinkedIn contact have never contacted me in the past year or ever&#8230;I am a &#8220;scalp&#8221; in their network&#8230;</p>
<p>take the other POV. As privacy becomes so difficult with data losses every day, some people do not want to share things like travel details a la Dopplr. Whatever happened to opt-in? It&#8217;s only for spam? There is so much social pressure to join specific web services&#8230;</p>
<p>,,,so till some rules of etiquette emerge around our social networks I cannot blame your and my fuddy duddy peers for not joining in&#8230;</p>
<p>oh and btw my teenage daughter wishes us fuddy duddy&#8217;s stayed out of networks like Facebook -)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-25975</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-25975</guid>
		<description>Kristin,

Okay, that may be true of Western Union ... but I never did depend on them to transfer money, and it would never have occurred to me today. I realize, of course, that it&#039;s an important mechanism for people to transfer funds from the U.S. to various developing nations (I hope that&#039;s a neutral way of stating it)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristin,</p>
<p>Okay, that may be true of Western Union &#8230; but I never did depend on them to transfer money, and it would never have occurred to me today. I realize, of course, that it&#8217;s an important mechanism for people to transfer funds from the U.S. to various developing nations (I hope that&#8217;s a neutral way of stating it)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-25974</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-25974</guid>
		<description>Roger,

The point is that I can&#039;t be bothered to remember which friends I should explicitly notify about my travel plans, nor do they remember to notify me ... but to the extent that we&#039;re all on Dopplr, it takes care of itself. Sure, we could accomplish the same thing through traditional email -- but the point is that we don&#039;t do do so ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>The point is that I can&#8217;t be bothered to remember which friends I should explicitly notify about my travel plans, nor do they remember to notify me &#8230; but to the extent that we&#8217;re all on Dopplr, it takes care of itself. Sure, we could accomplish the same thing through traditional email &#8212; but the point is that we don&#8217;t do do so &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-25969</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 01:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-25969</guid>
		<description>While I agree to some extent with the general sentiment...isn&#039;t &quot;irrelevant&quot; a bit extreme - particularly given that Dopplr is not exactly a mainstream network.  Is there a danger that you will lose contact with your &quot;middle-aged fuddy-duddy friends&quot; because of what could be regarded as a subjective fondness for Dopplr?....and now that I think of it...surely the  Dopplr invitations would have been sent to them by email...hmmmm.  Maybe they&#039;re not so fuddy-duddy after all.  From their viewpoint maybe you&#039;ve gone overboard on Web 2.0...and lost &quot;real&quot; connection.  Is their irrelevance more to do with a general changing of interests?  You&#039;ve raised an interesting issue....food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree to some extent with the general sentiment&#8230;isn&#8217;t &#8220;irrelevant&#8221; a bit extreme &#8211; particularly given that Dopplr is not exactly a mainstream network.  Is there a danger that you will lose contact with your &#8220;middle-aged fuddy-duddy friends&#8221; because of what could be regarded as a subjective fondness for Dopplr?&#8230;.and now that I think of it&#8230;surely the  Dopplr invitations would have been sent to them by email&#8230;hmmmm.  Maybe they&#8217;re not so fuddy-duddy after all.  From their viewpoint maybe you&#8217;ve gone overboard on Web 2.0&#8230;and lost &#8220;real&#8221; connection.  Is their irrelevance more to do with a general changing of interests?  You&#8217;ve raised an interesting issue&#8230;.food for thought.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-25924</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-25924</guid>
		<description>Hi Ed --

Enjoyed your blog! 

Just wanted to drop you a quick note to say that although Western Union is no longer sending telegrams, it&#039;s now the world&#039;s largest money-transfer company (with revenue of $4.5 billion in 2006). 

(If we&#039;re out of business, I&#039;m in trouble ... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed &#8211;</p>
<p>Enjoyed your blog! </p>
<p>Just wanted to drop you a quick note to say that although Western Union is no longer sending telegrams, it&#8217;s now the world&#8217;s largest money-transfer company (with revenue of $4.5 billion in 2006). </p>
<p>(If we&#8217;re out of business, I&#8217;m in trouble &#8230; <img src='http://www.yourdonreport.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon R. Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/comment-page-1/#comment-25901</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon R. Vaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/11/17/to-my-middle-aged-fuddy-duddy-friends-todays-social-networks-are-like-yesterdays-cell-phones/#comment-25901</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that&#039;s true, but I still can&#039;t find hardly anyone I knew in school on these sites (or even with Google, for that matter).

I think that&#039;s why Facebook is getting the kind of attention it&#039;s been getting, because it&#039;s the only network where there&#039;s a real chance that just about everyone might be on it, some day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s true, but I still can&#8217;t find hardly anyone I knew in school on these sites (or even with Google, for that matter).</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s why Facebook is getting the kind of attention it&#8217;s been getting, because it&#8217;s the only network where there&#8217;s a real chance that just about everyone might be on it, some day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

