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	<title>Comments on: The Ugly Side of Offshore Outsourcing</title>
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	<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/</link>
	<description>Blogging the impact of computer-related technology trends, and whatever else catches my interest.</description>
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		<title>By: Suyati</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/comment-page-1/#comment-34496</link>
		<dc:creator>Suyati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 06:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nice insight for an article! Those who lose jobs a shrill cry that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.suyati.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;offshore outsourcing&lt;/a&gt; is bad, and from those companies that stand to benefit, that it&#039;s the economics, stupid! It is a lot of noise because one side is shouting about apples (economics, science et al) while the other side is shouting about emotions (who cares about economics and science if I don&#039;t have a job?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice insight for an article! Those who lose jobs a shrill cry that <a href="http://www.suyati.com/" rel="nofollow">offshore outsourcing</a> is bad, and from those companies that stand to benefit, that it&#8217;s the economics, stupid! It is a lot of noise because one side is shouting about apples (economics, science et al) while the other side is shouting about emotions (who cares about economics and science if I don&#8217;t have a job?).</p>
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		<title>By: Perry Degner</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/comment-page-1/#comment-25228</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry Degner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/#comment-25228</guid>
		<description>I have used many offshore teams on different projects, and I have had some success and some massive failures. My massive failures have led me to no longer work with Indian programmers.

My rational has been not based on the color of their skin, english skills, etc. but more the quality of the work force. India has seen a huge boom because of the technical training and expertise of the people, but I think this has caused them to rush students through &quot;training&quot;, and thus diluted the quality of the programmers available. 

While the programmers think that they have had training and that they are very good programmers because of the training, many times the training is so sub-par that the programmers have no idea where their skills rank on a broader scale. 

I do continue to use and be very happy with the Eastern European programmers. I can understand that my preference for hiring lighter skinned programmers over the darker skinned programmers could be construed as rascist. I think this just happens to be a coincidence, and not the reasoning behind preferring one group of programmers over another.


As far as outsourced call center workers are concerned, I think it is easier to point the finger of rascism at this group, but I&#039;m not sure that is well placed either. The fact is that people in a call center are generally hated. They usually don&#039;t have the knowledge to provide the proper answers to customers, and when one does, we are kind of shocked, amazed, and incredibly grateful.

Most of the time though, customers are disatisfied with call center workers, which I think leads people to make rascist assumptions. I have to deal with several call centers, some are staffed by Indians, some by Russians, some by Americans. All I can say is that they are all awful.

The rascist card may not really be applicable here, and it&#039;s hard to say that it is not just a knee jerk reaction to the treatment and dissatisfaction that we are experiencing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have used many offshore teams on different projects, and I have had some success and some massive failures. My massive failures have led me to no longer work with Indian programmers.</p>
<p>My rational has been not based on the color of their skin, english skills, etc. but more the quality of the work force. India has seen a huge boom because of the technical training and expertise of the people, but I think this has caused them to rush students through &#8220;training&#8221;, and thus diluted the quality of the programmers available. </p>
<p>While the programmers think that they have had training and that they are very good programmers because of the training, many times the training is so sub-par that the programmers have no idea where their skills rank on a broader scale. </p>
<p>I do continue to use and be very happy with the Eastern European programmers. I can understand that my preference for hiring lighter skinned programmers over the darker skinned programmers could be construed as rascist. I think this just happens to be a coincidence, and not the reasoning behind preferring one group of programmers over another.</p>
<p>As far as outsourced call center workers are concerned, I think it is easier to point the finger of rascism at this group, but I&#8217;m not sure that is well placed either. The fact is that people in a call center are generally hated. They usually don&#8217;t have the knowledge to provide the proper answers to customers, and when one does, we are kind of shocked, amazed, and incredibly grateful.</p>
<p>Most of the time though, customers are disatisfied with call center workers, which I think leads people to make rascist assumptions. I have to deal with several call centers, some are staffed by Indians, some by Russians, some by Americans. All I can say is that they are all awful.</p>
<p>The rascist card may not really be applicable here, and it&#8217;s hard to say that it is not just a knee jerk reaction to the treatment and dissatisfaction that we are experiencing.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/comment-page-1/#comment-25217</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/#comment-25217</guid>
		<description>I too have witnessed racism, but I&#039;ve also witnessed items #1-#5. I don&#039;t think body odor or inability to comprehend English (or whatever the project language is) equates to skin color.

Almost every project where I&#039;ve contracted has a separate work area, but I&#039;ve never seen one segregated by race.

I don&#039;t think the reasons Mr O&#039;Neill list has anything to do with race as it has to do with the prevalence of cheap labor. As the other submitter points out, cheap labor from other countries (or even from rural areas of the US) is treated with disrespect.

I&#039;ve frequently heard that complaints of body odor equals racism. This is not so. Body odor detracts from the productivity of others. I once sat next to a programmer who constantly had terrible flatulence. I didn&#039;t dislike him because of his race, I disliked him because of his terrible odor.

Also, if someone is difficult to understand, it is difficult to do business with them. This is not a racist attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too have witnessed racism, but I&#8217;ve also witnessed items #1-#5. I don&#8217;t think body odor or inability to comprehend English (or whatever the project language is) equates to skin color.</p>
<p>Almost every project where I&#8217;ve contracted has a separate work area, but I&#8217;ve never seen one segregated by race.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the reasons Mr O&#8217;Neill list has anything to do with race as it has to do with the prevalence of cheap labor. As the other submitter points out, cheap labor from other countries (or even from rural areas of the US) is treated with disrespect.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve frequently heard that complaints of body odor equals racism. This is not so. Body odor detracts from the productivity of others. I once sat next to a programmer who constantly had terrible flatulence. I didn&#8217;t dislike him because of his race, I disliked him because of his terrible odor.</p>
<p>Also, if someone is difficult to understand, it is difficult to do business with them. This is not a racist attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwayne Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/comment-page-1/#comment-25213</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwayne Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/#comment-25213</guid>
		<description>Back in the early 1980s I traveled through several &quot;backwards,&quot; &quot;third-world&quot; Asian countries working. I was struck that these guys could (1) read, (2) write, and (3) learn how to program computers. Eventually, other people saw the same and made lots of money doing (3) and using the result.

I guess with time and enough people involved, some people started abusing other people instead of treating them as people. Sometimes I wish none of us had ever recognized (3). 

As per children doing this and that - I agree with you. Anytime I hear someone say, &quot;My kids would never do that!&quot; I quickly  tell them, &quot;Yes they would.&quot; &quot;Well, maybe that, but never ...&quot; &quot;Yes that would do that other thing, too.&quot;

Us people are funny sometimes. We can surf porno sites at age 11 and then turn around and shovel snow for elderly people for no pay (also at age 11). We can raise the standard of living for a generation of people in a poor country or abuse them as if they were goats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the early 1980s I traveled through several &#8220;backwards,&#8221; &#8220;third-world&#8221; Asian countries working. I was struck that these guys could (1) read, (2) write, and (3) learn how to program computers. Eventually, other people saw the same and made lots of money doing (3) and using the result.</p>
<p>I guess with time and enough people involved, some people started abusing other people instead of treating them as people. Sometimes I wish none of us had ever recognized (3). </p>
<p>As per children doing this and that &#8211; I agree with you. Anytime I hear someone say, &#8220;My kids would never do that!&#8221; I quickly  tell them, &#8220;Yes they would.&#8221; &#8220;Well, maybe that, but never &#8230;&#8221; &#8220;Yes that would do that other thing, too.&#8221;</p>
<p>Us people are funny sometimes. We can surf porno sites at age 11 and then turn around and shovel snow for elderly people for no pay (also at age 11). We can raise the standard of living for a generation of people in a poor country or abuse them as if they were goats.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Ramm</title>
		<link>http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/comment-page-1/#comment-25206</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Ramm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 05:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yourdonreport.com/index.php/2007/10/14/the-ugly-side-of-offshore-outsourcing/#comment-25206</guid>
		<description>I am not shocked of Mr. O&#039;Neill&#039;s story. It sounds very familiar to me. And it&#039;s not only the color of your skin that makes racist attitude. I live in Bulgaria and I&#039;ve been a software developer for a long time. We are white-skinned Europeans but we have always been treated as a second-class people by our American managers or customers.

My last manager used to say: &quot;You don&#039;t understand the business. You are not capable to do that. Only we, who live in the U.S., are.&quot; And he wasn&#039;t even an American. He was a Russian who just got a green card.

I think racist attitude not only exists in the U.S. but it has also been cultivated among the new immigrants who think that obtaining a green card means fulfilling The American Dream and is a way to distinguish the superior classes from the inferior ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not shocked of Mr. O&#8217;Neill&#8217;s story. It sounds very familiar to me. And it&#8217;s not only the color of your skin that makes racist attitude. I live in Bulgaria and I&#8217;ve been a software developer for a long time. We are white-skinned Europeans but we have always been treated as a second-class people by our American managers or customers.</p>
<p>My last manager used to say: &#8220;You don&#8217;t understand the business. You are not capable to do that. Only we, who live in the U.S., are.&#8221; And he wasn&#8217;t even an American. He was a Russian who just got a green card.</p>
<p>I think racist attitude not only exists in the U.S. but it has also been cultivated among the new immigrants who think that obtaining a green card means fulfilling The American Dream and is a way to distinguish the superior classes from the inferior ones.</p>
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